I enjoyed reading this. Very intriguing and I could so relate. It also made me reflect upon work relationships I have had. I've encountered coworkers in the same profession having spouses in the same field as my own spouse. I having been a Speech Pathologist in rehab, with a spouse in Electrical Engineering. Two fellow speech pathology coworkers had spouses in the same type profession as my own.. Further, another 2 coworker Occupational Therapists had spouses who were Civil Engineers. These were all coworkers close in my proximity. I recall also finding it intriguing years ago, that the speech pathologist who left prior to my being hired had just moved from a home near to where I was moving. Her spouse worked in the same field as my own, and she named her first born son the same as my first born son. We never knew or met each other. (Makes me wonder if there are trauma similarities there too. There is a lot unknown.....) Also so much more I could relate to reading what you wrote, but this would become far too long. Thanks for the food for thought Gary! One more thing...I also recall. a former supervisor of mine who also was a speech pathologist - stating she noticed our profession tended to be a bit "anal". Well, I too had seen a perfectionistic tendency in the profession, to be honest. I also have noticed similar physical challenges encountered....joint replacements or reconstructuring, arthritis. It makes sense to me in my experience and relationships with others in the field.
Very interesting observations. It is intriguing to consider to how different people with different survival styles may attract or repel each other. I think this would tie in with the themes of "co-dependency" and "attachment styles". Also another one of these which I was intending to cover as the theme of the next article in this series is "white knight syndrome".
"...specific industries or institutions have become self-selecting and amplifying of people displaying certain styles..."
I agree. It's very much like the movie "Divergent"!
"...and how in turn, these trauma-selecting and trauma-inducing institutions are now traumatizing the rest of us..."
That's because they don't heal their trauma, only continue to cope through compensation and other techniques. This is how the majority of people go through their entire lives, so of course it has become easy for industries and institutions to pay psychopaths to constantly analyzing the workplace to further enslave workers. What a cycle of trauma!
Very very interesting stuff. Especially interesting to me: how we have natural talents and how these may make something wonderful (teaching, say) into something largely self- and other-destructive. Something else to explore, for me anyway: how some childhood traumas may make us relatively immune to certain generally traumatizing environments. I think of how, in academia, I was rather like how I went my own way in childhood. As for academia, I rather went my own way in my studies and then my college teaching. Still, ever so much learning to reach more and undo blocking factors.
Quite the spot-on, deep-dive post here, and I've yet to follow up on all the rabbit holes you've left for us ... or even taking a dive into some excellent comments here.
Much thanks for this post. I can only trust it helps a few of us further continue down that path of constantly waking up ... or at least pinching ourselves to make sure we aren't sleep walking into the night.
1 — Self worth on my ability to 'fix' people? To some degree, but rather than 'fix', maybe 'nurture', 'inspire', or 'protect'. Partially because I am a foreigner and will never be a completely autonomous adult in Japan. Hell, in such a collectivist 'harmony-oriented' society (no matter how superficial the harmony), autonomy is not articulated as a high value, but then again, articulation of 'having a moral spine' rather than showing it by action, may just be a cultural conceit of the West.
But also by temperament, the barriers that distinguish me from others tend to be made more by others than myself. Ha, might have spilled the bong water one time too often. But even before my college days, it was probably the first day of Jr. High that I realized the meritocracy of good grades in grade school meant very little to the sons and daughters of the well-to-do and their cliques. I was one step removed from trailer-trash, lower blue-collar family, and all one needed to do was look at the clothes one wore. From Jr. High onward, I knew my place was at the back of the class.
On the other hand, I was always good natured. Being the 2nd smallest guy in a school of about 350 or so, I gravitated towards wrestling as the only thing my size permitted, and by the time I was a Jr. was pretty good. I remember a long evening bus ride to a county-school for a small wrestling tournament during the Christmas holiday. I had made it to the finals, and looked at the other bracket and saw the name 'Billy Rumley, Defending State Champion' and thought to myself, 'Oh shit. I just hope I don't embarrass myself.' I didn't expect much, but didn't have anything to lose, and was pleasantly surprised to see we had ended the regular match in a draw, and had to wrestle in overtime. He beat me, though barely, and I came off the mat exhausted but with a grin on my face for pushing what would become one of a handful of 3 time state champions into overtime, as well as voted Outstanding Wrestler of that tournament. On the long bus ride back home, those black bronze gods of the mat who were my seniors were in the back, singing their motown favorites, I was looking out the bus window at the dark Carolina night thinking 'Eggnog!' and the coach leans over and says that during the coaches' discussion of 'Outstanding Wrestler of the Tournament', one of the coaches of another participating team had brought up my name. It had to be for my attitude, but without the killier instinct to take the victory, it was just a nomination. I was too tired and hungry to think much of it then ... but that kind of encapsulates my character, go-for-broke 2nd best.
But I could see this dynamic while working later in Japan while working in an American institute as well. When I was at Temple University Japan, I focused on nurturing the weak links in the classes — volunteered to teach the lowest level, unmotivated, or problem-student classes ... probably because I could identify more with them than high achievers. This was in stark contrast to one vice-Dean, notorious for collating and plagiarizing his students' work for his own publications. In one private meeting, he raked me over the coals for not being a 'good' teacher by letting the weaker students sink or swim, and instead, looking for the high achievers as a marketing opportunity for the school.
On the other hand, I was consciously used by management as a trouble shooter or innovator. What has now become a suit-and-credentialled-tie Adult Continuing Education Program at TUJ, started with just a buddy and member of the office staff (Mr. Nukui), asking if I'd be willing to stay in the evening and help out struggling students. Hell, I enjoyed chatting with students enough (and vice-versa), I would have done it as a volunteer. Now, I wouldn't even qualify to teach in the program I started.
The less friendly management at TUJ knew and used the 'White Knight' in me as well. Back when tensions were high between the U.S. and Iran, management asked me to teach private classes to the high school son of an Iranian ambassador in Japan ... and damn if he didn't show up on time, every time, with his mother in tow. And in full garb. 😂
Another time, a visiting professor of Architecture from Finland was due to give a presentation at top ranked Tokyo University, but she was not confident because English was not her native language. So TUJ management asked me to give her private lessons on the psychology and techniques of public speaking. At that time, in addition to running the biology labs at Temple, I was a jack of all trades teaching public speaking and freshman writing. I later went on and was a volunteer judge at about 15 All Japan English Speech contests for Japanese college students, but another story for another time. When I finally figured out I was cleverly being 'used' by Tokyo University students, I gave up that gig.
But Japanese colleges were as bad. Being tenured at one school, I had presumed that community outreach activities were a must for promotion to full professor, and since volunteerism was one way of saying 'fuck you to chain of command hierarchies', I embraced those activities as therapy. Although my department 'colleagues' frowned on me helping another department even in our own school, once every 3 years when it was time for the school to fill out an evaluation form for the Ministry of Education, someone from the business office would come to me with a clipboard and demand a recounting of my volunteer-community outreach activities, and promptly turned that list in to the government as proof that the school was living up to its obligations to the local community. Damn clever buzzards.
2 — Maybe unresolved abandonment issues? Maybe. Grew up the oldest of three in a single parent home (Dad, former Master Sergeant, Green Beret) though I was more of a loner than my siblings. Mom moved out of state, remarried, and we made occasional visits, but she seemed more like a friend or older sister.
3 — Gravitate towards the overly needy and dramatic, often idealizing them? Ouch. That hits close to the core. But on the other hand, I love strong women I consider my intellectual equal or more ... am in awe of Sasha, Tessa, Heidi, Margaret and a few others don't have nearly enough time to read. Morally strong, super intelligent, but not driven by blind ambition or self interest. Though I have my favorite female artists of the stage or song, was never attracted to the PrimaDonnas among them.
My first real girlfriend was an iron-butterfly exchange student from Japan. Though very good at playing the helpless card in academia (she went on to do honors work for Prof Susumu Kuno at Harvard — has a Wikipedia page), and though sometimes dramatic, she was probably the 'stronger' of us, depending on how strength is defined. She had her real life goals and boundaries, and stuck to them like a mule.
After moving to Japan, though I had my share of romance and losses, the only one I popped that 'will you' question to was also as smart as a whip ... placed third in Tokyo's mathematics 'Olympics' and spoke very elegant English. BUT she could be dramatic, maybe even borderline histrionic (by Japanese standards), as well as precociously philosophical. She died before age 30 from the long term complications of anorexia. So I guess she was indeed, 'fragile'. Either that, or has done I good enough job of ghosting me, that I must have thousands of photos of her gravestone from each time I visited. Funny though, how it is not in the family plot. 🧐
4 — Control and micromanaging? A firm 'wrong' to that one. I hate chain of command hierarchies with a passion, almost as much as I love egalitarian communities, or even flipped classes where the students choose the curriculum and I just help with the scaffolding. As a would-be educator in the highest liberal arts tradition of empowering the marginalized and holding authority accountable, I am about as opposite of the notoriously micromanaging-compartmentalizing 'chain-of-command' mind-set over here as possible. The rigid hierarchical nature of the more dysfunctional institutionalized in-groups over here seem to go hand-in-hand with credentialism rather than meritocracy or moral imperatives — but I guess that is nothing unique to Japan. While Steely Dan's 'Deacon Blues' might be the theme song of my life, a close runner-up would be this one ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSGl3d4KOMk
5 — Manipulate someone else into the dance of dependency? Nope. Not that one either. Rather, I tend to be all too aware of my own terminal feeling of dependency and helplessness ... both as the token foreigner in institutions and Japanese culture at large, and my semi-literacy while living in a heavy bureaucratic paper-work driven culture. I am so dependent on a few others for just having survived a never ending gauntlet of the 'dark-triads' to the Dunning-Krugers of Japan for this long, that I can never do enough to paying it forward with community outreach, or even the smallest favor to a stranger. I have a resume of volunteer activities both in Japan and outside (Cambodia) much longer than my publish-or-perish curriculum vitae. And though it doesn't carry much weight in job searches, I still would not trade the former for the latter. Ha. Maybe rather than 'Count Chocula', 'Don Quixote' should have been my substack name. 🤣
Edits complete ... for now.
Time for some chow.
Catcha later buddy, and looking forward to that read!
Just an early Tuesday morning (before school) heads up about another source of information I use to understand psychology and social dynamics ... and much less dense than Lobaczewski ... Dr. Ramani. I just saw watched this one this morning and thought it important enough to save to tabs and explore further ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGuNeX3fbvM and this one ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYbmD5ithBE. Both overlap with some of what you are talking about, and most definitely apply to group dynamics in Japan, particularly the Japanese preference for hammering down the nail that sticks up rather than self promotion as a way to gain social status.
Hmm... I wonder how a 'Jack of all trades' entrepreneur would align? When I see generalizations or classifications such as this my mind immediately starts focusing on the exceptions... I wonder what that says about me, lol!
I guess those who actually have a good childhood and well balanced are the true exceptions - not sure what lines of work they would be drawn to... probably something creative and fulfilling...
I enjoyed reading this. Very intriguing and I could so relate. It also made me reflect upon work relationships I have had. I've encountered coworkers in the same profession having spouses in the same field as my own spouse. I having been a Speech Pathologist in rehab, with a spouse in Electrical Engineering. Two fellow speech pathology coworkers had spouses in the same type profession as my own.. Further, another 2 coworker Occupational Therapists had spouses who were Civil Engineers. These were all coworkers close in my proximity. I recall also finding it intriguing years ago, that the speech pathologist who left prior to my being hired had just moved from a home near to where I was moving. Her spouse worked in the same field as my own, and she named her first born son the same as my first born son. We never knew or met each other. (Makes me wonder if there are trauma similarities there too. There is a lot unknown.....) Also so much more I could relate to reading what you wrote, but this would become far too long. Thanks for the food for thought Gary! One more thing...I also recall. a former supervisor of mine who also was a speech pathologist - stating she noticed our profession tended to be a bit "anal". Well, I too had seen a perfectionistic tendency in the profession, to be honest. I also have noticed similar physical challenges encountered....joint replacements or reconstructuring, arthritis. It makes sense to me in my experience and relationships with others in the field.
Very interesting observations. It is intriguing to consider to how different people with different survival styles may attract or repel each other. I think this would tie in with the themes of "co-dependency" and "attachment styles". Also another one of these which I was intending to cover as the theme of the next article in this series is "white knight syndrome".
"...specific industries or institutions have become self-selecting and amplifying of people displaying certain styles..."
I agree. It's very much like the movie "Divergent"!
"...and how in turn, these trauma-selecting and trauma-inducing institutions are now traumatizing the rest of us..."
That's because they don't heal their trauma, only continue to cope through compensation and other techniques. This is how the majority of people go through their entire lives, so of course it has become easy for industries and institutions to pay psychopaths to constantly analyzing the workplace to further enslave workers. What a cycle of trauma!
Agreed!
Wise words!
Very very interesting stuff. Especially interesting to me: how we have natural talents and how these may make something wonderful (teaching, say) into something largely self- and other-destructive. Something else to explore, for me anyway: how some childhood traumas may make us relatively immune to certain generally traumatizing environments. I think of how, in academia, I was rather like how I went my own way in childhood. As for academia, I rather went my own way in my studies and then my college teaching. Still, ever so much learning to reach more and undo blocking factors.
Hi Gary,
Quite the spot-on, deep-dive post here, and I've yet to follow up on all the rabbit holes you've left for us ... or even taking a dive into some excellent comments here.
I suspected that once I clicked the link to your post, I would be here for awhile, so I kept putting it off ... until a running dialogue with buddy Heidi Heil led from this quip ... to remembering to begin the read of your post. https://sashalatypova.substack.com/p/pfizer-under-microscope-dr-david/comment/11915422
Much thanks for this post. I can only trust it helps a few of us further continue down that path of constantly waking up ... or at least pinching ourselves to make sure we aren't sleep walking into the night.
Cheers Gary!
steve
Very interesting, as the intended theme for the next article in this series was going to be on "White Knight Syndrome".
Just a heads up Gary, that the never-quite enough perfectionist in me (towards me) will edit my lengthy reply, probably to make it lengthier. 🤣
LOL. Yep, some of the traits I found here ... https://thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2018/06/5-signs-you-have-white-knight-syndrome-playing-the-rescuer-in-your-relationships/ ... do seem to apply to me ... with some hedging.
1 — Self worth on my ability to 'fix' people? To some degree, but rather than 'fix', maybe 'nurture', 'inspire', or 'protect'. Partially because I am a foreigner and will never be a completely autonomous adult in Japan. Hell, in such a collectivist 'harmony-oriented' society (no matter how superficial the harmony), autonomy is not articulated as a high value, but then again, articulation of 'having a moral spine' rather than showing it by action, may just be a cultural conceit of the West.
But also by temperament, the barriers that distinguish me from others tend to be made more by others than myself. Ha, might have spilled the bong water one time too often. But even before my college days, it was probably the first day of Jr. High that I realized the meritocracy of good grades in grade school meant very little to the sons and daughters of the well-to-do and their cliques. I was one step removed from trailer-trash, lower blue-collar family, and all one needed to do was look at the clothes one wore. From Jr. High onward, I knew my place was at the back of the class.
On the other hand, I was always good natured. Being the 2nd smallest guy in a school of about 350 or so, I gravitated towards wrestling as the only thing my size permitted, and by the time I was a Jr. was pretty good. I remember a long evening bus ride to a county-school for a small wrestling tournament during the Christmas holiday. I had made it to the finals, and looked at the other bracket and saw the name 'Billy Rumley, Defending State Champion' and thought to myself, 'Oh shit. I just hope I don't embarrass myself.' I didn't expect much, but didn't have anything to lose, and was pleasantly surprised to see we had ended the regular match in a draw, and had to wrestle in overtime. He beat me, though barely, and I came off the mat exhausted but with a grin on my face for pushing what would become one of a handful of 3 time state champions into overtime, as well as voted Outstanding Wrestler of that tournament. On the long bus ride back home, those black bronze gods of the mat who were my seniors were in the back, singing their motown favorites, I was looking out the bus window at the dark Carolina night thinking 'Eggnog!' and the coach leans over and says that during the coaches' discussion of 'Outstanding Wrestler of the Tournament', one of the coaches of another participating team had brought up my name. It had to be for my attitude, but without the killier instinct to take the victory, it was just a nomination. I was too tired and hungry to think much of it then ... but that kind of encapsulates my character, go-for-broke 2nd best.
https://greensboro.com/william-billy-rumley/article_80f03e95-6070-5baa-aa02-7c2ea60706e0.html — Billy Rumley, RIP
But I could see this dynamic while working later in Japan while working in an American institute as well. When I was at Temple University Japan, I focused on nurturing the weak links in the classes — volunteered to teach the lowest level, unmotivated, or problem-student classes ... probably because I could identify more with them than high achievers. This was in stark contrast to one vice-Dean, notorious for collating and plagiarizing his students' work for his own publications. In one private meeting, he raked me over the coals for not being a 'good' teacher by letting the weaker students sink or swim, and instead, looking for the high achievers as a marketing opportunity for the school.
On the other hand, I was consciously used by management as a trouble shooter or innovator. What has now become a suit-and-credentialled-tie Adult Continuing Education Program at TUJ, started with just a buddy and member of the office staff (Mr. Nukui), asking if I'd be willing to stay in the evening and help out struggling students. Hell, I enjoyed chatting with students enough (and vice-versa), I would have done it as a volunteer. Now, I wouldn't even qualify to teach in the program I started.
The less friendly management at TUJ knew and used the 'White Knight' in me as well. Back when tensions were high between the U.S. and Iran, management asked me to teach private classes to the high school son of an Iranian ambassador in Japan ... and damn if he didn't show up on time, every time, with his mother in tow. And in full garb. 😂
Another time, a visiting professor of Architecture from Finland was due to give a presentation at top ranked Tokyo University, but she was not confident because English was not her native language. So TUJ management asked me to give her private lessons on the psychology and techniques of public speaking. At that time, in addition to running the biology labs at Temple, I was a jack of all trades teaching public speaking and freshman writing. I later went on and was a volunteer judge at about 15 All Japan English Speech contests for Japanese college students, but another story for another time. When I finally figured out I was cleverly being 'used' by Tokyo University students, I gave up that gig.
But Japanese colleges were as bad. Being tenured at one school, I had presumed that community outreach activities were a must for promotion to full professor, and since volunteerism was one way of saying 'fuck you to chain of command hierarchies', I embraced those activities as therapy. Although my department 'colleagues' frowned on me helping another department even in our own school, once every 3 years when it was time for the school to fill out an evaluation form for the Ministry of Education, someone from the business office would come to me with a clipboard and demand a recounting of my volunteer-community outreach activities, and promptly turned that list in to the government as proof that the school was living up to its obligations to the local community. Damn clever buzzards.
2 — Maybe unresolved abandonment issues? Maybe. Grew up the oldest of three in a single parent home (Dad, former Master Sergeant, Green Beret) though I was more of a loner than my siblings. Mom moved out of state, remarried, and we made occasional visits, but she seemed more like a friend or older sister.
3 — Gravitate towards the overly needy and dramatic, often idealizing them? Ouch. That hits close to the core. But on the other hand, I love strong women I consider my intellectual equal or more ... am in awe of Sasha, Tessa, Heidi, Margaret and a few others don't have nearly enough time to read. Morally strong, super intelligent, but not driven by blind ambition or self interest. Though I have my favorite female artists of the stage or song, was never attracted to the PrimaDonnas among them.
My first real girlfriend was an iron-butterfly exchange student from Japan. Though very good at playing the helpless card in academia (she went on to do honors work for Prof Susumu Kuno at Harvard — has a Wikipedia page), and though sometimes dramatic, she was probably the 'stronger' of us, depending on how strength is defined. She had her real life goals and boundaries, and stuck to them like a mule.
After moving to Japan, though I had my share of romance and losses, the only one I popped that 'will you' question to was also as smart as a whip ... placed third in Tokyo's mathematics 'Olympics' and spoke very elegant English. BUT she could be dramatic, maybe even borderline histrionic (by Japanese standards), as well as precociously philosophical. She died before age 30 from the long term complications of anorexia. So I guess she was indeed, 'fragile'. Either that, or has done I good enough job of ghosting me, that I must have thousands of photos of her gravestone from each time I visited. Funny though, how it is not in the family plot. 🧐
4 — Control and micromanaging? A firm 'wrong' to that one. I hate chain of command hierarchies with a passion, almost as much as I love egalitarian communities, or even flipped classes where the students choose the curriculum and I just help with the scaffolding. As a would-be educator in the highest liberal arts tradition of empowering the marginalized and holding authority accountable, I am about as opposite of the notoriously micromanaging-compartmentalizing 'chain-of-command' mind-set over here as possible. The rigid hierarchical nature of the more dysfunctional institutionalized in-groups over here seem to go hand-in-hand with credentialism rather than meritocracy or moral imperatives — but I guess that is nothing unique to Japan. While Steely Dan's 'Deacon Blues' might be the theme song of my life, a close runner-up would be this one ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSGl3d4KOMk
5 — Manipulate someone else into the dance of dependency? Nope. Not that one either. Rather, I tend to be all too aware of my own terminal feeling of dependency and helplessness ... both as the token foreigner in institutions and Japanese culture at large, and my semi-literacy while living in a heavy bureaucratic paper-work driven culture. I am so dependent on a few others for just having survived a never ending gauntlet of the 'dark-triads' to the Dunning-Krugers of Japan for this long, that I can never do enough to paying it forward with community outreach, or even the smallest favor to a stranger. I have a resume of volunteer activities both in Japan and outside (Cambodia) much longer than my publish-or-perish curriculum vitae. And though it doesn't carry much weight in job searches, I still would not trade the former for the latter. Ha. Maybe rather than 'Count Chocula', 'Don Quixote' should have been my substack name. 🤣
Edits complete ... for now.
Time for some chow.
Catcha later buddy, and looking forward to that read!
steve
Hi again Gary,
Just an early Tuesday morning (before school) heads up about another source of information I use to understand psychology and social dynamics ... and much less dense than Lobaczewski ... Dr. Ramani. I just saw watched this one this morning and thought it important enough to save to tabs and explore further ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGuNeX3fbvM and this one ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYbmD5ithBE. Both overlap with some of what you are talking about, and most definitely apply to group dynamics in Japan, particularly the Japanese preference for hammering down the nail that sticks up rather than self promotion as a way to gain social status.
Cheers.
Fascinating!
Very very very interesting.
I recognise myself in the traits of 2-3 survival styles (in the linked article).
Any recommendations on how to dig deeper to figure out what my style is?
The book "Healing Developmental Trauma" was lifechanging for me, and I keep finding new nuggets in it years later. I can't recommend it highly enough.
Will look into that. And see if maybe I can find some sort of online test!
Absolutely fascinating
Hmm... I wonder how a 'Jack of all trades' entrepreneur would align? When I see generalizations or classifications such as this my mind immediately starts focusing on the exceptions... I wonder what that says about me, lol!
I guess those who actually have a good childhood and well balanced are the true exceptions - not sure what lines of work they would be drawn to... probably something creative and fulfilling...